Friday, October 30, 2009

Novelty Policies, or "Nepotism or Good Sense?"

I read over the Azure Drake details (1.2% drop on Malygos 25) on Wowhead and came across the following comment that got voted down and heckled:
Droped for my guild last night.Rolls were limited to guild members of certain rank or above. I got really lucky and snagged this bad boy. This is by far the most sexy mount in my colection and dare I say in game...
People shouldn't have heckled until they found out what the rank was, honestly. It could be anything from "full member" to "veteran member" to "GM only." And each deserves different feedback. As for the fairness of guild policy -- as long as the policies are in writing, discriminated members can't complain when the roll goes the way it was designed. They had their chance to complain or gquit when they heard about it. If they don't like it when it happens, they're morons for being lazy and not fighting it sooner (or, OMG, even reading it).

We debated novelty loot at length in IVV back when the phoenix was a real potential raid drop (and not just an annoying farm). Obviously, I wanted rules that favored me, but I still feel strongly about the issue and just can't see it the same way as the guild-hopping woman I argued with at the time, who said essentially "Who cares? Just let everyone roll."

Her everyone meant the brand new initiates and members who had very little real connection to IVV, and who all did eventually leave in a minor mass exodus (a situation brought on by our then-loose friend inclusion policies and the desperation for raiders, something I've never been proud to say I was accomplice in).

I'm going to cut to the brutal, sensible chase: status pieces acquired by a guild should stay in the guild.


Thus, I'm in favor of denying rights to status loot (legendaries, mounts, etc) to people who haven't proven themselves as part of their guild.

To me, the fairest way to do this in a more casual guild is length of active time as a full member, such as staying in the guild with no problems for a few months (three months is not unreasonable for a once-a-year drop). Or even (in raiding guilds) raid time clocked. Hell, dkp if you have it. I suggested picking a person to receive legendaries based on their availability and prominence in raids (hard work = reward sort of thing), and, from what I understand, IVV officers plan to decide what to do with legendaries before it's an issue (and will take into account a player's availability and usefulness to the raid).

The backbone to the way I think is that the loot shouldn't go to someone who may take it and leave. That is a slap in the face I'd rather avoid.

The problem is there's no way to know that won't happen even with older members, and indicating to newer members that you don't trust them is never a good idea.

Thus my "stay in IVV as a full member for X amount of time" proposal. It has a clear-cut designation and doesn't really favor anyone over anyone else. It's a solid test of staying power, too, if you don't make it something stupid like a week.

I'm pretty sure IVV's policy on mounts is that anyone present can roll, and that works for most, but I still think rare status items deserve to be kept close to home and need a measure more protection than "Have at it."

Ah well. Despite feeling strongly about policy, I'm glad I'm not an officer anymore. It's exhausting.

Anecdote for the road:

A guy from the guild in this controversy got the first Onyxian Drake on our server.

I looked up the drop rate for the Onyxian Drake for husband, who was disappointed that they got the first one since they had a confirmed ninja who hadn't been gkicked.

Scanning the comments, I read the following out loud, ending it with a smug high five:
Skaknight: possibly the coolest looking mount in game [. . .]
Venci: The coolest flying mount in game is Ashes of Al'ar ! Don't forget that.
Take that, guild who kept a stupid ninja. Random strangers in wowhead comments say you're not the cutest! *raspberry*


  1. From what I've read about the game, there was once a time when raids could not be PuGged. Not only that, but you were unlikely to successfully complete raids with "casual" guilds. It seems that as raids were released, guilds had to prepare to conquer them by getting the appropraite gear, including gear with the right resistances, weapons that maximized tank threat generation or which one of the raid's dps entourage would use to increase everyone elses raid damage. Often the "right" gear had to be crafted using rare materials farmed from a previous raid.

    I mean, it sounds like it was a tedious process of recruiting the right classes, people with the right crafting professions, a lot of raiding where certain coveted drops would be funnelled to the right guild members. Everyone just randomly rolling for the loot would be crazy. Taking some item which 40+ people had worked on your behalf to acquire and then skipping off to a new guild with it would be a horrendous breach of trust.

    I don't see how farming prestige items is any different. Like you mentioned when Ashes finally dropped for you, it took your whole guild to get it. That you have it reflects as much (or more!) on your guild's dedication than on any individual in it. Setting some threshhold membership requirement to receive the item seems perfectly reasonable as long as those loot rules are understood by everyone involved.

  2. Hmm.. I see what you mean when you say that "status pieces acquired by a guild should stay in the guild," and I agree with Jack's sentiments above that it's the guild that has worked on progression and getting to the point where they can down the bosses etc. On the other hand, if you have 24 able and ready raiders on raid night and have to pug the 25th, you wouldn't even be seeing the drop if that 25th player hadn't joined you.

    I have always been of the opinion that pugs should be treated the same as guildies when it comes to loot, and we have in fact had a lot of pugs join our guild because of that attitude. Of course we never had to worry about something like a rare mount drop, and I imagine it could potentially ruffle some feathers. To be honest, I'm not sure what I think of this scenario, but I'm pretty sure the only solution that excludes certain raid members from rolls that I'd be ok with is the one you suggest, where being with the guild for a while is what allows you to roll.


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